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Suggestion Change to botting hours system

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Feb 26, 2015
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Please change the current "user pays for x hours of botting per month" subscription model to a simple "user pays for x hours of botting" system where the purchased hours don't expire.

Reasoning:

-The current subscription model penalizes users who purchase subscriptions during periods of low bot usage and/or bot an irregular number of hours each day.

Example 1: Period of low bot usage followed by period of high bot usage
When I returned back to RM on January 26 and announced the development of my Cursed Wisp bot, I purchased a $10 subscription on the 27th, since I was anticipating heavy bot usage in the future. Until now, I've purchased additional $10 subscriptions every time I've been running low on hours. I was aware of the problems that other people had with the subscription system, so I didn't purchase a large amount of hours at once.
Today, I was hit with a "out of botting hours" notice because the January 27 subscription expired. Since I hadn't done much botting during that time since I didn't get my Cursed Wisp bot to a stable state and start botting 24/7 until early February, very few of the hours granted by the $10 subscription were used, causing me to dip below 0 hours since I didn't regain many hours.

Example 2: Period of high bot usage followed by period of low bot usage
I buy a $100 subscription and then bot for 10000 hours in a single month. At the end of the month, I decide the ban rate at where I'm botting is too high and switch to running four Vindicta bots. If I botted for 10 hours a day on each of those bots, I'd only use 1200 hours/month. However, due to the way the subscription system works I'd have -10000 hours of credit, which means I have to wait until near the end of the month to resume botting, or pay $100 to bring myself above a negative balance, which means I'd be wasting $88 on hours I'd never use.

Thus, in order to minimize the amount of wasted hours due to them expiring and to avoid suddenly running out of hours due to an irregular number of hours used each day (i.e. due to bot downtime, a banwave, etc), the most efficient way to purchase subscriptions is to repeatedly purchase $2-3 subscriptions to gain access to hours as needed. However, this increases the amount RuneMate has to pay in Paypal fees. For a single $90 subscription, RuneMate will pay $2.91 in fees. However, for 30 $3 subscriptions, RM will pay $11.61 in fees. I expect to begin botting another MMO in March, so I'm reluctant to commit to a single subscription since my hours botted will drastically change as a result. If a "pay for x hours of botting" system was implemented, I'd simply buy bulk hours in a single transaction since I wouldn't have to worry about them expiring.

-The current subscription model confuses many users.

Confusion over how the current subscription model works results in many threads being made in the Client & Site Support section. This consumes staff time and reduces user satisfaction. A "pay for x hours of botting" system is much easier to understand, especially for users who have English as their non-primary language.


Alternative plans discussed on Slack:

-Change it to a "Pay for x hours that expire after x time period" similar to cellphone plans, which is how a lot of people think the current system works. I believe this was suggested by @Party on Slack
-Sponsors would also never have their hours expire, which would serve as an incentive to get it for people who aren't interested in the ability to advertise other websites. I suggested this because there's not much of a reason to get Sponsor except to advertise websites.
-Change it to the old "pay for additional instances" system, except that each additional instance is more expensive than it was before ($1/instance to $3-5?).
 
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Joined
Aug 11, 2016
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I remember suggesting this too. I've lost like 1500hrs cuz of this :/ I don't get it why it hasn't then like the suggestion since the beginning. Not sure what they were thinking.

On a side note, you gonna be botting Albion online? xD, cause I am. If the game is good, it'll be more profitable than runescape.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
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I've posted another example due to how @yoyi1001 and @yoyi1002 got screwed over. Given that he's spending hundreds per month on botting hours, I doubt he was intentionally trying to abuse the system.
 
12 year old normie
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Jan 8, 2015
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I've always disliked the current system, although some sort of monetisation is required. I'm not sure if arbiter even considers changing the subscription model again because it was only recently introduced. Changing again causes more confusion in the short term, which may cause people to leave.

Nonetheless do I think that personally a system like you describe will cause less confusion in the long term. If I could call the shots, I'd absolutely implement it.

Let's hope for a lot of support to sway arbiter around. :)
 
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Joined
Jan 31, 2016
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Please change the current "user pays for x hours of botting per month" subscription model to a simple "user pays for x hours of botting" system where the purchased hours don't expire.

Reasoning:

-The current subscription model penalizes users who purchase subscriptions during periods of low bot usage and/or bot an irregular number of hours each day.

Example 1: Period of low bot usage followed by period of high bot usage
When I returned back to RM on January 26 and announced the development of my Cursed Wisp bot, I purchased a $10 subscription on the 27th, since I was anticipating heavy bot usage in the future. Until now, I've purchased additional $10 subscriptions every time I've been running low on hours. I was aware of the problems that other people had with the subscription system, so I didn't purchase a large amount of hours at once.
Today, I was hit with a "out of botting hours" notice because the January 27 subscription expired. Since I hadn't done much botting during that time since I didn't get my Cursed Wisp bot to a stable state and start botting 24/7 until early February, very few of the hours granted by the $10 subscription were used, causing me to dip below 0 hours since I didn't regain many hours.

Example 2: Period of high bot usage followed by period of low bot usage
I buy a $100 subscription and then bot for 10000 hours in a single month. At the end of the month, I decide the ban rate at where I'm botting is too high and switch to running four Vindicta bots. If I botted for 10 hours a day on each of those bots, I'd only use 1200 hours/month. However, due to the way the subscription system works I'd have -10000 hours of credit, which means I have to wait until near the end of the month to resume botting, or pay $100 to bring myself above a negative balance, which means I'd be wasting $88 on hours I'd never use.

Thus, in order to minimize the amount of wasted hours due to them expiring and to avoid suddenly running out of hours due to an irregular number of hours used each day (i.e. due to bot downtime, a banwave, etc), the most efficient way to purchase subscriptions is to repeatedly purchase $2-3 subscriptions to gain access to hours as needed. However, this increases the amount RuneMate has to pay in Paypal fees. For a single $90 subscription, RuneMate will pay $2.91 in fees. However, for 30 $3 subscriptions, RM will pay $11.61 in fees. I expect to begin botting another MMO in March, so I'm reluctant to commit to a single subscription since my hours botted will drastically change as a result. If a "pay for x hours of botting" system was implemented, I'd simply buy bulk hours in a single transaction since I wouldn't have to worry about them expiring.

-The current subscription model confuses many users.

Confusion over how the current subscription model works results in many threads being made in the Client & Site Support section. This consumes staff time and reduces user satisfaction. A "pay for x hours of botting" system is much easier to understand, especially for users who have English as their non-primary language.
Support! I don't like how the current system works as it's overly complicated imo. This would be much simpler and more fair.
 
Author of MaxiBots
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Dec 3, 2013
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Support. The current system clearly isn't suitable because almost every single user has had trouble understanding how it works and the amount of threads regarding the matter is rather high.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
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230
i 100% support it should be changed i dont know if i agree with "your system"
but i also lack imagination to find a better solution myself.. :p
 
Discord: https://discord.gg/VPzHwCm
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
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404
Current system makes RM more money. Doubtful for change but would be great.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
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Current system makes RM more money. Doubtful for change but would be great.
so far ive found that rm biggest concern isnt to make money but to be like PB but without all the BS and more mature.. which im a biiig fan of :)
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
351
how about instead of giving people hours go back to the way it was in the begining
this hours system has everyone confused asf
take hours system away
either way i think this hours payments system is not working at all. you got people complain about their hours being used. dont get me wrong but i have no issues at all with the payment system
 
Community Manager
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,394
how about instead of giving people hours go back to the way it was in the begining
this hours system has everyone confused asf
take hours system away
either way i think this hours payments system is not working at all. you got people complain about their hours being used. dont get me wrong but i have no issues at all with the payment system
How is that better for anyone but the goldfarmers
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
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822
I've always disliked the current system, although some sort of monetisation is required.
Current system makes RM more money. Doubtful for change but would be great.

A major point in my original argument is that RM would make more money if they used the system I suggested due to lower paypal fees and more bulk hour purchases.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
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Party said he likes the current system and sees nothing wrong, and Arbiter ain't saying anything. Doubt we'll get this much needed change :/
 
Discord: https://discord.gg/VPzHwCm
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Oct 28, 2015
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A major point in my original argument is that RM would make more money if they used the system I suggested due to lower paypal fees and more bulk hour purchases.
There would be less hours purchases from the casuals and I'm not seeing why the bulk (regular) buyers would buy more?

Casuals don't have to worry about odd rolling #s that mean they randomly need to buy up. We see this in the chat constantly.

Any time you implement a system where the currency/value doesn't expire purchases will go down outside of a morale/trust/social contract boost. This is why coupons expire.
 
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